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Episode 107: Esprit Ouvert | AA Beyond Belief

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“Esprit Ouvert” is French for “Open-mindedness”, and it’s the identify of a brand new secular AA group that meets in Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec each Friday night time at eight:00 pm. On this episode, Ernest B. and William B. speak about what motivated them to start out the group, the challenges they confronted, and the way their group approaches the AA program from a completely secular perspective. The group has rewritten “The way it Works”, in addition to the Steps and Traditions. These paperwork can be found for obtain in pdf type right here, and also will seem in a separate publish at AA Past Perception. 


00:00 John: That is AA Past Perception, The Podcast Episode 107.


00:24 John: Good day, I’m right here with William B and Ernest B, and they’re from Quebec, and just lately began an AA assembly in Montreal, they usually despatched me an e-mail letting me know that they needed to be on the secular AA assembly listing, so I despatched that on to Courtney and so as to add their group, and I assumed, “Hey, I’d love to listen to about your group in Montreal,” so I requested them to return on the podcast. The way you guys doing?

00:47 William: Oh, we’re doing good, we’re doing good.

00:49 Ernest: Yeah, good, good.

00:50 William: Only a little bit of a correction John, we’re not truly in Montreal, in a metropolis about, what would you say Ernest, about 40, 50 kilometers south of Montreal, Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu.

01:05 John: Okay.

01:06 William: Yeah, in order that’s a metropolis of about 100,000 individuals.

01:09 John: Okay, good. So let’s get the story collectively about how this group began, and perhaps we’d need to begin with what received you interested by a secular AA assembly to start with?

01:21 William: Okay. You need to go forward Ernest for a bit or…

01:23 Ernest: Oh, we’re each… I’m an atheist, and Will is agnostic, and once we used to go to assembly, we stick collectively, however we had a tough time to deal with the God enterprise, and I talked to him about that there was some group around the globe that there was agnostic and an atheist group. So I did some analysis and I stated, “We should always begin a gaggle like this as a result of there’s one… ” There was about 12 teams in Toronto, and I knew that they had an argument with the district in Toronto. They have been booted out. So now they’re again in as a result of it modified the best way they take a look at it. So I stated, “We should always begin a gaggle close to Montreal as a result of another individuals like us.”

02:23 William: Yeah. And so that you see, what occurred was about two years in the past I’d say, we tried to start out a gaggle with principally an accent on WAAFT, W-A-A-F-T, We Atheists and Alcoholics Freethinkers, and AA Agnostica, however that didn’t appeal to individuals. I don’t know why. Perhaps it’s as a result of it didn’t appear to be AA, or was too various or one thing like this. However now that, as Ernest stated, AA appears to be making an attempt to welcome a few of these free thinkers and agnostics, atheists. We began this once more, it was solely… We’ve solely been on this a few month, proper?

03:04 Ernest: Yeah.

03:05 William: So yeah. And so we had gone to a different group that acquired began earlier than us in one other metropolis referred to as Saint-Hyacinthe, they usually’re referred to as Libres Penseurs, Freethinkers, and that is in French. Each of our conferences are in French. We don’t have English assembly but in Quebec so far as we all know, however there in all probability will probably be one quickly in Montreal. And in order that’s how we began this time. We began it a pair years in the past, it didn’t work, however this time it appears to be working. At our final assembly we had eight individuals, which was fairly good, fairly good, yeah. And don’t overlook that in Quebec, it’s been very, very near the Catholic church for generations, so even now with the extra secular angle that folks have within the new generations, since let’s say 1960, nonetheless they’re sticking with the church and the best way it really works.

04:03 John: I used to be questioning about that. I used to be questioning what the standard assembly is like in your space. Do they, for instance, use the Lord’s Prayer and all that type of stuff?

04:13 William: Usually, they use the Lord’s Prayer on the finish. They begin with the Serenity Prayer, after which they end with the Lord’s Prayer.

04:21 John: Okay, in order that’s fairly typical. That’s how it’s round right here too.

04:24 William: Yeah, however this too has been altering, as a result of I do know there’s one assembly I’m going to, a French one, which used to say the Lord’s Prayer on the finish, now they’re saying… They’re speaking about simply utilizing the Duty Declaration or the Unity Declaration to shut the assembly.

04:41 John: Yeah, and that’s truly a great way to do it. We’re doing that now at our space meeting right here in Missouri. We’re closing increasingly with the Duty Assertion, and in addition, we do this at our district conferences now, which is very nice.

04:55 William: Yeah.

04:55 John: It makes everyone extra snug.

04:58 Ernest: Additionally, what gave us the prospect to start out this yr is as a result of we’re allowed to place our assembly on the itemizing of AA. Earlier than, we didn’t have anywhere to promote our group. In order that’s why it didn’t begin. However this time, the district and the area AA, they put us on the itemizing so individuals see it they usually query about it. They speak to us about it.

05:29 John: And what’s the identify of your group?

05:30 William: It’s referred to as Esprit Ouvert. That’s French for “open thoughts”.

05:36 John: Okay, I like that. And what’s your format? What…

05:39 Ernest: Properly, the format is dialogue assembly. Everyone is allowed three minutes that they will speak about something. We’ve got a topic, like perhaps talk about the step three or step 4, and the step are modified. We modify the step too. All of the step have been modified. So the individuals have the step in entrance of them, and we talk about one step, they usually can speak additionally about one thing that they like to speak about that occurred in the course of the week or one thing like that too.

06:15 John: So did you guys modify the steps yourselves, or did you’re taking it from another person who’s finished the modification?

06:21 Ernest: Nicely Saint-Hyacinthe is the group that began earlier than us, which is about 50 kilometers from right here, they usually have modified the steps based mostly on the steps that’s been modified in Toronto, they usually have been so good, so we didn’t change something. We used these ones.

06:41 John: Okay, so whenever you open your assembly, do you learn these steps?

06:46 William: Oh yeah.

06:47 John: Okay.

06:48 William: And do we’ve the paper right here Ernest, some place?

06:50 Ernest: Yeah, we use… Yeah, we’ve got the step, however we learn the step, we learn the…

06:56 William: The tactic.

06:57 Ernest: The way it works, however which has been modified as properly.

07:04 John: Oh actually?

07:04 Ernest: And the custom have been modified for custom two and custom, I feel, 11 that have been some greater energy there. However the different… All the opposite custom are the identical.

07:21 John: So I’m about the way you modified the way it works.

07:24 William: Okay. Properly we’ll have to seek out the paper to inform you that. Okay. So John, simply give us a second as a result of we’ve the paper proper in entrance of us. We acquired a briefcase filled with all that stuff that we use in our assembly. And right here it’s, okay. So your assembly, what’s the identify of your guys’ assembly?

07:46 John: Right here in Kansas Metropolis, our group is… We received a few ’em, however the group I’m going to, my house group is We Agnostics.

07:52 William: We Agnostics, okay.

07:54 John: After which we even have a Free Thinkers group and we now have a secular speaker assembly.

07:58 William: Oh sure, okay. So right here, I’ve obtained the paper, however that is in French. I don’t know if that’s going to make a lot sense to the people who find themselves listening, however we might kind of translate it as we go alongside. Okay, first the tactic. That is referred to as the secular model of the way it works, the tactic in French, okay, utilized by the group Esprit Ouvert, Open Thoughts. That is tailored from the the way it works and the 12 steps as proven in Alcoholics Nameless. So our technique, it constitutes a program of restoration for alcoholics with the will to cease consuming and in search of assist in the Esprit Ouvert group, okay? This technique requires that we be rigorously trustworthy in the direction of ourselves, and that we assume complete duty for our behaviors and our attitudes. These are the weather, the essential parts for our restoration. The tales of our lives reveal, normally method, who we have been, what occurred to us and the way we at the moment are, the best way we at the moment are.

09:17 William: If you wish to actually need to get well and also you’re prepared to take action and depart your consolation zone, when you’re curious about working very exhausting to vary your habits and your lifestyle, you’re able to put into operation these steps. And the steps have been modified. I’m not going to learn all of the steps, however Ernest will inform you those which were modified.

09:45 Ernest: Okay, the steps which were modified is quantity two. It says, “We got here to simply accept that we’d like assist to face our drawback with alcohol.” In order that’s why we take away God. And step three is identical because it was earlier than. And step 4, “We proceeded with out, fearless about our personal stock… ” However I’ve a chilly.

10:22 William: Okay. [laughter] Okay. “We proceeded with out, fearless… In a fearless ethical stock of ourselves, recognizing our selfish behaviors, our fears, our self-pity, our resentments, and our weaknesses, that this stuff might have contributed to our alcoholism.” Step three, although, we did take away the phrase God or larger energy.

10:49 John: Yeah, yeah.

10:50 William: “We have now determined to hitch a gaggle of individuals having succeeded in turning into abstinent,” that’s all. “A gaggle of individuals,” that’s all that one says. And 5 is, “We spoke with out reserve to ourselves and one other individual the small print of our stock.” Six, “We comply with abandon our damaging behaviors in the direction of ourselves and others.”

11:21 John: Oh, I like that.

11:22 William: Seven, “We search with humility, honesty and an open thoughts to vary our behaviors and our habits… “

11:30 John: Oh, I prefer it.

11:32 William: “To develop into, in a approach, to develop into abstinent.” And eight, “We made up an inventory of all of the individuals that we had harmed, and we comply with restore our… To… “

11:45 Ernest: Wrongdoings, I assume.

11:47 William: Yeah, “Our wrongdoings in the direction of every of those individuals.” After which 9, “We repaired our wrongdoings wherever attainable with these individuals, besides when doing so would danger harming them or different individuals.” That is only a tough translation, sorry.

12:08 John: That’s effective.

12:08 William: 10, “We continued our private stock and promptly admitted our wrongs as quickly as we turned conscious of them.” 11, “We proceed to look inward, inside ourselves… “

12:23 John: Oh, I like that.

12:24 William: “To seek out our place, our reputable place, and attempt to discover our rightful place in life. In addition to a drive that would understand, that would result in this alteration.”

12:38 John: Excellent, I really like that. I’ve not heard a step 11 fairly like that one earlier than. That’s actually good.

12:43 William: And 12, “Having recovered by the follow of those steps, we tried to transmit this message to different alcoholics and to place in follow these rules in all the… “

12:56 Ernest: “All our affairs.”

12:58 William: “In all our affairs.”

13:00 John: Yeah.

13:00 William: Okay. In order that’s it.

13:00 Ernest: That’s about it.

13:01 William: That’s about it. I imply, the tactic has additionally been modified; God isn’t referred to within the technique.

13:08 John: Proper.

13:08 William: Anyway… Besides, I feel, one or two locations, however it’s fairly nicely secular.

13:15 John: Yeah.

13:15 William: And we’ve a coverage that if individuals need to come, anyone can come. It’s a closed assembly for alcoholics, but when they’re believers, they will discuss their beliefs and the way that… And their energy or their larger energy, no matter. However that’s about it. There’s not going to be any prayers, there’s no prayers to open, no prayers to shut. It’s not related to any faith, and we need to maintain it that means.

13:43 John: Excellent, that’s nice. It type of creates a impartial setting the place everyone is snug no matter what they consider or don’t consider. And at our group now, I simply observed that hardly does the subject of perception even come up anymore. It’s only a common AA assembly. I feel anyone can be snug.

14:03 William: It’s. And so what we do in our dialogue we attempt to put the accent on whether or not the step or no matter idea, AA idea we’re discussing, or should you don’t need to speak concerning the step, you possibly can speak about your week or what occurred at present or one thing that’s bothering you and the way it’s associated to your program as you’re training it. And that’s what we do.

14:28 John: And so most people that attend your assembly, do they principally determine as atheist and agnostic? Is that who you’re attracting?

14:35 William: Most people that we now have attracted to date are both atheists, agnostics, or they only need to get away from the spiritual aspect of normal AA conferences right here. And truly, we have now conferences in English, not in… We now have one on this city, however there’s quite a bit in Montreal. And the English conferences are regularly, I feel, going in the direction of the identical format the place they attempt to keep away from an excessive amount of faith in there…

15:04 John: Wow.

15:05 William: Discovering that the younger era just isn’t .

15:08 John: Yeah, I feel that’s actually true.

15:10 William: Yeah.

15:11 John: Somewhat aspect notice, I used to be just lately contacted by a lady who has a small remedy middle right here in Kansas Metropolis, and she or he was fascinated by having an AA assembly in her facility. And I used to be speaking to her, I stated, “Nicely, would you thoughts if we had a gathering that we didn’t pray?” And she or he stated, “Oh yeah, that’d be completely superb,” she says, “I feel that folks would really like that so much higher.” [chuckle] So I feel that we’re going to in all probability take conferences to that middle, and that’ll be fascinating as a result of it’ll be a secular assembly, however the individuals there may very nicely be believers, which is completely fantastic.

15:44 William: Mm-hmm. One factor… Oh yeah, the faculties, the faculties. Weren’t there some faculties, Ernest, that the AA right here needed to convey the factor in faculties?

15:54 Ernest: Yeah, there was public info. They went to a faculty. Now all the varsity right here, they eliminated the crucifix. In all the faculty in Quebec now, there’s no extra crucifix. They usually train multi-religion, like they speak about, to the youngsters, about all that’s obtainable, the totally different faith obtainable. They speak about every considered one of them somewhat bit to the youngsters. In order that they needed to go there and make some details about AA, however they advised them that they would like not having AA coming to the varsity as a result of it’s too centered on one God, and that they don’t agree with that coverage. In order that they weren’t allowed to go to the varsity and make some public info.

16:55 John: Ain’t that fascinating?

16:56 Ernest: The most important drawback we now have in our group is that folks in a traditional AA assembly are very keen concerning the group. They assume that we do… There’s some wrongdoing to AA. So each member that got here to our group, after one assembly they stated, “I actually like that,” however at first there, they can’t shut.

17:26 John: Yeah.

17:27 William: At first they have been slightly bit too… They have been shy of it. They assume we’re going to destroy the place. We’re going to interrupt up AA and all this and that, sort of just like the rebels.

17:40 John: Proper. [chuckle]

17:43 William: Just like the wild one comes into city on his motorbike and breaks every part up like Marlon Brando. However [chuckle] no, we’re not like that. We’re giving an alternate and everyone is welcome. And so as soon as they arrive, they really feel less difficult about it. That’s it. After which they determine whether or not they need to come once more or not. However fairly a number of of… There’s a believer we’ve obtained in there now, he stated he’s coming again. He believes in God, however he likes the best way we do issues and it’s much less… He stated it’s even much less battle than the conferences he goes to on the middle the place we now have most of our conferences. There’s much less battle and fewer controversy.

18:22 John: Yeah. Yeah.

18:24 William: We don’t struggle with anyone.

18:26 John: Proper, proper.

18:27 William: Dialogue, you get your period of time, after which we go on to the subsequent individual, and the subsequent, after which we come again. That’s all. Come again. After everyone’s spoken, we begin once more.

18:37 John: I assume it sounds to me just like the Human Rights Tribunal end result in Toronto opened issues up throughout Canada.

18:48 William: Yeah, it did.

18:49 Ernest: Yeah.

18:50 John: As a result of you possibly can learn these various steps and it’s not an issue.

18:55 William: That’s proper. In truth, our district, our, what do they name it, district committee member, got here to certainly one of our first conferences, and he stated, “Every part’s high-quality.” And we despatched in… He stated… Did he truly ship within the paper?

19:12 Ernest: Yeah, he needed to do a report back to the area. He got here into the assembly. He was despatched by the area to do an inspection of the group, and report back to see if there was something flawed. Yeah, yeah.

19:29 William: Yeah, yeah. And now we’re registered with the world, the area space, and we’re ready for a quantity from New York.

19:37 Ernest: We acquired it.

19:38 William: We acquired a quantity from New York? Okay, I didn’t know. Okay.

19:41 John: Oh, you’re set then.

19:42 William: Oh, we’re arrange, yeah.

19:43 John: That’s nice.

19:44 William: Okay.

19:45 Ernest: The opposite day, I used to be… Once I do converse in a gaggle, like they ask me to be the speaker, I came upon that if I say proper open that I’m an atheist, on the finish of the assembly, I’ve a tough time to go away the place as a result of everyone is asking query they usually don’t agree with it, however they ask query about it. They don’t know what it’s.

20:14 John: They’re , aren’t they? And I feel that’s nice. I discover the identical factor. I spoke at a standard assembly right here not too way back, and I feel the individuals have been , even those who didn’t agree with me, they needed to listen to how on earth do I do that, as one who doesn’t consider in a God.

20:31 Ernest: The large query they are saying, “How are you going to keep sober [laughter] with out God?” That’s the large query.

20:40 John: Nicely, I’d say, “The identical method as you, as a result of there actually isn’t a God.”


20:43 Ernest: Yeah. However they will’t open their thoughts, you realize? When he stated, “When you have got one thing you can’t repair that’s making you loopy, or one thing occurs and someone died and also you’re grieving, how are you going to speak to your greater energy should you don’t have one?” I stated, “I’ve a better energy, I’ve the group, you understand?”

21:10 John: Yeah, and you may truly… You’ll be able to speak to them they usually can speak again. [chuckle]

21:14 Ernest: Sure, precisely.


21:17 Ernest: I stated, “With God, I by no means have a solution again.”

21:19 John: Precisely. [laughter] That’s so humorous. Yeah, I feel individuals get means too hung up typically on the entire supernatural greater energy factor, it’s like, “Hey, don’t you guys overlook that there’s issues that you simply truly need to do?” [chuckle]

21:32 Ernest: They virtually say to you, “How are you going to breathe?” [laughter]

21:39 John: Proper. [laughter]

21:43 William: However that appears to be one of many issues, that an excessive amount of emphasis… I don’t dispute anyone’s beliefs, and I feel even God finds if it really works for you, high quality. However the factor is, when you’re placing every part on God’s shoulders and also you’re not doing the work, that’s why you’re not recovering.

22:04 Ernest: I advised them, “You take a look at step six and step seven. Step seven, you ask God to take away all of your character defects,” however I stated, “Me, I’ve to work on it.” [laughter]

22:20 William: Yeah. [laughter]

22:20 John: You realize what’s additionally fascinating, it looks like the previous few weeks I’ve been speaking to atheists concerning the steps, and people two steps, six and 7, have been arising often. It’s like we… I feel that there’s virtually a bonus with us, and I feel perhaps the remainder of AA may need to decide up on this, [chuckle] as a result of we now have to actually take into consideration these steps, and what we do, as a result of there’s no exterior drive that’s going to be taking these defects away. So, we’ve got to sort of give it some thought. And I like the best way that you simply interpreted these steps.


22:54 Ernest: I’ve to do the work, no one’s going to do it for me. I can’t present my drawback to no one. [laughter]

23:02 John: Proper, proper.


23:05 John: So, I’d like for you guys, in the event you might, when you might e-mail me a replica of your steps and traditions, and in addition the model of the way it works. And you may ship them in French, that’s completely nice. We’ll submit them up there on our web site, with the podcast.

23:18 Ernest: Okay.

23:19 William: What we might do is we might do a… I might do a translation if you need, on paper.

23:24 John: Okay.

23:24 Ernest: What I’ll do is I’ll scan… We’ll scan our the way it works and the custom and the steps, and I’ll ship it to you on PDF format.

23:37 John: Okay, okay.

23:38 Ernest: In order that approach you are able to do… Put them someplace. You should use it as you would like.

23:45 John: Yeah. And truly, I feel it might be good to have a model in French, as a result of there’s numerous French-speaking areas on the planet that would in all probability use it, so…

23:54 Ernest: We’ll scan it as it’s and ship it to you.

24:00 John: Superior, yeah. So, I feel that is going to be a terrific expertise. We began our group, this shall be our fifth yr, and it’s simply been actually superb to observe it unfold. Yeah. And it grows in begins and spurts, and it’s like we had a really sluggish gradual progress within the first couple of years, after which it simply appeared to sorts take off, and we’re nonetheless, I feel, rising a bit of bit right here and there.

24:28 Ernest: Yeah, yeah.

24:28 William: Yeah.

24:29 Ernest: Yeah, right here in Quebec, there’s going to be… There’s two group formally open. There’s one which’s opening proper now, proper on the south shore close to Montreal, it’s about 5 kilometers from Montreal, in Saint-Anne. So it’s going to be three teams in Quebec within the close to future. And has one which’s going to open in Montreal.

24:53 John: Excellent, excellent. Nicely, that’s implausible. And I can see extra occurring. And I’m actually completely satisfied to see that issues are opening up in Canada general, as a result of the AA in Canada was actually arduous on these teams. They have been exhausting in Vancouver, in Toronto, and I assume, even in Quebec, about not wanting [chuckle] to record these teams. And now it’s like, “Oh, they higher listing them.” And what’s in all probability cool although, too, is that they’re discovering that, “Oh, hey, these guys are just about like us.”

25:26 Ernest: Yeah, precisely.

25:27 William: Yeah.

25:28 Ernest: No distinction, hardly any totally different.

25:30 William: One factor appears to be an issue right here is lots of people don’t… Nicely, I don’t find out about quite a bit, however a sure proportion of people that need to go to the AA conferences don’t need any modifications to be made within the steps or any modifications to be made within the custom or within the technique. However, truly, it’s simply as properly that the modifications are made as a result of if the modifications weren’t made, it might simply be the common, common, common type of theistic group that we all the time look to. So if you wish to have an alternate, have an alternate. However then they’ll say, “Properly, then you definitely gotta begin your personal fellowship.” Properly, that’s fairly arduous to do.

26:13 John: And we don’t need to anyway as a result of we truly we’re in on the start beginning this factor.

26:18 Ernest: Yeah, precisely.


26:20 John: And the steps have been being interpreted from the very starting anyhow. So we’re simply persevering with with that custom. [chuckle]

26:27 Ernest: However like Invoice stated on the guide, AA Comes of Age, at web page 81, there’s a paragraph there the place Invoice says if you wish to change the steps, do it. In the event that they ask you to start out consuming, you do it, go forward. However he say it brazenly. So once you speak to individuals and I say, “Go, see web page 81 and are available again to me and we’ll speak about it.” Then he says, “Yeah, you’re proper. Invoice was open to that.”

27:02 John: Nicely, what we do in our group, we don’t learn the steps, and we haven’t written our personal various, however we now have had particular person members of the group write their very own model, and we’ve these in a pocket book. However once we speak concerning the steps, we often learn from like the choice 12 Steps guide, or another secular guide, and now there’s additionally the 12 Secular Steps is a brand new e-book that got here out, and we wish to learn from these books to do the steps. As a result of in case you do learn the unique one, sadly, due to the “God” phrase, it’s only a hurdle to leap over. It’s a must to do the psychological gymnastics to to attempt to translate it, so it’s simply higher simply to have the plain language proper on the market for individuals.

27:45 Ernest: Yeah, yeah.

27:47 William: We don’t have any of these books that you simply simply talked about in French right here. That’s the factor. Since this group is a French group, to learn these steps, I imply, we have now to translate these too.

28:00 John: Have you learnt Roger C. From AA Agnostica?

28:02 Ernest: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:03 John: I’m questioning if he may need some French variations of these books. I’ll should ask him, as a result of he’s initially, he’s French-Canadian.

28:11 Ernest: Yeah, yeah. I by no means had an opportunity to speak to him actually. I solely examine that he use letters. A lot of the weeks, he sends ones to my e-mail. That’s what I used to be doing for a yr, studying these. I received my assembly down to at least one every week as a result of I used to be not… I didn’t really feel good going to the traditional AA assembly, as a result of I used to be studying some speaker all the world over that have been secular speaker, and to remain sober, and I used to be doing high-quality, however I needed to open one as a result of I stated this, “There’s gotta be another individuals like me. It’s unimaginable that I’m the one one in Quebec.” [laughter]

29:00 John: Proper, completely. And it’s good to have that private face-to-face human contact and make connections with individuals too in your personal group.

29:13 William: Yeah, that’s what lets you keep… Helps me to remain sober, as a result of the conferences every time, those I can go to, they assist me to remain sober. So if I’m going a pair weeks, every week or perhaps a week with no assembly, I don’t really feel good.

29:26 John: Yeah, I feel I do higher going frequently, and I are likely to do proper now about three every week, I assume, for probably the most half. Typically I’d miss a pair, however principally.

29:38 Ernest: Similar as me. That’s about two, three every week. Now that I’ve that group, we used to drive to Saint-Hyacinthe, which is an hour drive for our secular assembly, and do this one we’ve there. However then I’m going to a different regular assembly, however I hold my mouth shut as a result of [chuckle] they know… They take a look at me as being the one who open the group, the dangerous group in St. Jean. “That’s the man who opened it.” [laughter]

30:10 John: Proper. [chuckle]

30:12 Ernest: I’m like a goal once I stroll into an AA assembly.


30:17 William: Some individuals, not from… Nicely a number of the individuals.

30:21 Ernest: Yeah, a few of the individuals, however…

30:23 John: Some, yeah.

30:26 Ernest: Dangerous man, I imply… [chuckle]

30:26 John: No, I hear you. I do know. I feel that almost all of the individuals round listed here are fairly okay with me and my group, and there may be one occasional one that won’t like us, and often round right here, they gained’t say an excessive amount of. They’ll speak behind my again perhaps, however they gained’t… [chuckle]

30:43 Ernest: I discovered like a… On the west finish of Canada or any English province, the factor is that they have been already comfortable with different faith round them, like Anglican and Protestant and all that. However then in Quebec it says it was so underneath… The faith have been driving them loopy. They have been all over the place of their life. So why it got here that you simply couldn’t escape, not going to church you have been like a man with the satan. So to get out of that…

31:29 William: Predicament, yeah.

31:three Ernest: So the individuals are afraid to go away. They assume is that they depart, they don’t consider in God, that one thing’s dangerous goes to occur to them, they actually consider that.

31:44 William: Yeah, yeah, that’s it, yeah.

31:46 John: I discover that basically fascinating. So Quebec, I do know you’re tight… Like if you have been speaking concerning the public faculties not having prayer and all the things, are you saying that pretty current… Even in current occasions that the general public faculties in Quebec have been educating faith and stuff like that, they might have prayer within the public faculties?

32:03 Ernest: Nicely, within the public faculty, in my age, and I’m 73, however now my son is 38, he hasn’t been baptized, and he doesn’t know any prayer as a result of in class they don’t train any, however now they obtained away with that. However once I was going to high school, we had the Catechism, you needed to move a check to go, to get your First Communion. It was actually… They convey you to Thursday rituals they usually used to deliver us to church to go to confession, the subsequent day we’ll go to the mass. However now they acquired away with all this and the church and the nun in Quebec aren’t allowed to throw out the previous gown that that they had earlier than with the cap on their heads. In order that they received away with all this. The priest, they gown like regular individuals now. So a bit of bit by little bit, they obtained away from the large God they know that watching you…

33:13 William: The management of the church.

33:14 Ernest: In all places. So God is with you besides should you go to the toilet like he’s there. [chuckle]

33:21 John: The identical factor occurred in Eire. It’s just like the Catholic church had such a grip on Eire, however not a lot anymore.

33:29 Ernest: They received away with this, and now they’re getting away with this and the younger individuals… I see my son, he doesn’t have any barrier, so he lives and he’s comfortable. There’s no strain from any supposedly God that he’s to do, masturbate himself, he’ll go to hell.


33:52 John: Proper. Nicely, thanks guys a lot for approaching this podcast and telling to me about your group. I liked this dialog, it’s a lot enjoyable for me to talk with individuals from areas that I’ve by no means been, and it’s like I study just a little bit about that a part of the world, and also you guys simply appear to be numerous enjoyable. If I’m ever in Quebec, I need to take a look at your assembly.

34:17 William: Okay, thanks. [laughter]

34:19 Ernest: Thanks very a lot. I’m very pleased I met you thru the web. It was identical to, no, I didn’t realize it was going to finish like this. I’m very completely satisfied about the best way it occurred.


34:31 Ernest: I’m very happy I met you over the web.

34:33 John: Similar right here. Likewise. So Glad New Yr to each of you. I want you all of the very, best in 2019.

34:38 William: You too, John. Have a great 24. Thanks very a lot.


35:00 John: And that concludes this episode of AA Past Perception, The Podcast. Thanks for listening everyone, I recognize your help.

Further Info

Itemizing for Esprit Ouvert at

Flyer for Esprit Ouvert

Directions for one that leads conferences at Esprit Ouvert

Esprit Ouvert’s interpretation of How It Works, the Steps, and Traditions (unique French)

Esprit Ouvert’s interpretation of How It Works, the Steps, and Tradiations (English Translation)

Methodes et Traditions