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Episode 110: Safe Injection Comedy Fundraiser Toronto Edition

Episode 110: Safe Injection Comedy Fundraiser Toronto Edition

The opioid epidemic is a disaster, it’s an emergency, and hundreds of individuals are dying. The truth is, extra individuals have died from the opioid epidemic than the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s. The Toronto Overdose Prevention Society is responding to the disaster of their metropolis by creating and working pop-up protected injection websites. These websites value about $150 a day to function and since they don’t obtain authorities funding, they want donations to function.

Mark Hughes, a recovering addict and comic from Vancouver created the Protected Injection Comedy Fundraiser in that metropolis to assist increase cash to help pop-up injection websites. These fundraisers have been profitable, so when Mark moved to Toronto, it made sense that he would begin the Protected Injection Comedy Fundraiser: Toronto Version. The present can be held on the 120 Diner, 120 Church Road in Toronto on March 28, 2019. Tickets are $15 on the door. 

This episode helped educate me concerning the opioid epidemic and the grassroots effort to deal with the disaster. An added bonus was that I received to satisfy Mark and study his comedy and his podcast “Pulling the Set off.” I hope this episode is useful to somebody indirectly, and that listeners will benefit from the time spent with Mark. 


00:00 John: That is episode 110 of AA Past Perception, the podcast.


00:23 John: In right now’s episode, I’ll be talking with Toronto comic Mark Hughes, host of the Protected Injection Comedy Fundraiser to be held on March 28th on the 120 Diner in Toronto, Ontario. All proceeds from the comedy fundraiser might be donated to the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society. I loved my dialog with Mark. It was fascinating to study concerning the protected injection websites in Toronto and the life-saving work carried out by the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society. Mark’s private story and his ardour for serving to others is each shifting and galvanizing.

I’m right here with Mark Hughes, a recovering addict, comic and podcaster, and I consider a social advocate. Mark, the way you doing?

01:06 Mark Hughes: I’m good, I hate that phrase advocate.


01:10 John: I don’t know, as I used to be…

01:12 Mark Hughes: It’s your podcast, you possibly can name me no matter you need, child.

01:14 John: Okay. [chuckle] As I used to be studying about you, although, I assumed, “Wow,” since you actually care concerning the topic that we’re going to be speaking about. You’re right here at present to inform us a few fundraiser that can be happening on March 28th on the 120 Diner in Toronto.

01:30 Mark Hughes: Yup.

01:30 John: It’s a protected injection comedy fundraiser and it’s going to profit the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society, is that proper?

01:38 Mark Hughes: That’s proper, yeah.

01:39 John: So, why don’t you speak about this? I do know that you simply… I assume, you probably did one among these in Vancouver. Is that how this entire factor began?

01:46 Mark Hughes: Yeah, I did two in Vancouver. So, I’m a recovering addict. I’m a recovering IV drug consumer, cocaine and heroin. I used to be on the Downtown Eastside. I’ll simply provide the temporary model to get into the how I began doing these fundraisers. I’ve recognized lots of people who’ve died of drug overdose within the final… Since about 2016, finish of 2015, 2016. I’ve recognized lots of people who’ve died. Like, once I say quite a bit, I’m speaking about, it’s in all probability, it’s over 100 now.

02:18 John: God.

02:19 Mark Hughes: I do know extra individuals who’ve died in the previous few years of drug overdose than I did once I was actively utilizing medicine on the streets, and never just some extra, like 10 occasions extra. That’s how dangerous the epidemic is. So what occurred was, I used to be considering how… I do know so many individuals are dying. And in Vancouver on the time we had this factor, this stuff referred to as pop-up protected injection websites, “pop-ups… ” Oh, is that this video recorded?

02:48 John: Nicely, I do have a video, however I’m not recording it.

02:51 Mark Hughes: So it’s simply audio?

02:51 John: Yeah, simply audio.

02:52 Mark Hughes: Okay, so for the listeners, “pop-up safe-injection websites” and what these have been, have been, in Canada, what are referred to as supervised injection websites are authorized underneath sure parameters. In order that’s the place you’re allowed to eat medicine legally and there are medical employees round to intervene ought to one thing occur, like an overdose. And the issue was, the quantity of drug use in Vancouver… Properly, far and wide, however actually Vancouver is so… The quantity of drug use is so excessive that the authorized protected injection website, which is understood worldwide as Insite, couldn’t accommodate all of the individuals.

03:34 John: Wow.

03:34 Mark Hughes: And there are nonetheless an enormous quantity… It could actually solely take 25 individuals at a time, and for those who ever went right down to the Downtown Eastside the place it’s, there’s far more individuals than that. So individuals have been nonetheless dying. So some individuals began… They only… Principally, they received some Narcan, naloxone, an opioid antagonist which reverses an overdose and simply type of put up just a little spot the place individuals might use and, “Hey, if you wish to get excessive, we’ll watch and simply… If something occurs we’ll intervene.” And it’s referred to as a pop-up protected injection website. Technically, they have been unlawful. Technically, they nonetheless are unlawful, as a result of you need to get… There’s a bunch of laws and stuff. You must get permission and authority from the federal government, the federal authorities right here in Canada. Now, the police weren’t… That they had an settlement with the police, that the police wouldn’t implement the regulation whereas individuals have been doing that, so they only… as a result of they understood this can be a drawback they usually don’t have to… It’s too small of a factor. It might do extra hurt than good to be arresting individuals utilizing medicine, proper?

04:39 John: Positive.

Insite, situated in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside was the primary authorized supervised injection website in North America.

04:40 Mark Hughes: Drawback was, they couldn’t get funding. So Insite will get authorities cash, as a result of it’s authorities sanctioned. The pop-up protected injection websites have been… They’re principally punk rock, group grassroots. However these… To be able to maintain demand or the provides, the dah-dah-dah-dah, they should… Cash. It prices cash to do all that. In order that they have been counting on donations and GoFundMes and I assumed, “Nicely, I might placed on a comedy present and lift cash.” And what the ultimate nail within the coffin, because it have been, for once I determined I gotta do one thing about this was, I used to be getting an image taken for a newspaper story about me, as a result of I’m a recovering addict who does comedy.

05:26 John: Proper.

05:27 Mark Hughes: Oh, it’s so thrilling. And I’m dealing with you want I’m proper now, so that you’re the photographer. To my left, should you have been the photographer you would have seen it as a result of I sort of heard a commotion behind me. Somebody was overdosing.

05:41 John: Oh, God.

05:42 Mark Hughes: That’s how frequent it’s, down there, proper?

05:44 John: Wow.

05:44 Mark Hughes: And it’s simply this distinction, this juxtaposition, no matter you need to name it, when, right here I get this image taken for this text and there’s somebody perhaps going to die. He didn’t die, however might have, proper?

05:58 John: Proper.

05:58 Mark Hughes: He turned blue, proper? And, yeah, so then I did it and I did one and I did two. So now that group, which was referred to as the Overdose Prevention Society in Vancouver, they do obtain authorities funding now. In order that they don’t want donations as closely as they used to. That was 2017, I did the final one. Quick ahead to now, I moved to Toronto, just some months in the past, in November, they usually have a Toronto Overdose Prevention Society right here, too. They usually have some protected supervised and… Supervised consumption, protected injection, no matter you need to name them, websites right here, however additionally they have a number of pop-up ones. The federal government right here in Ontario, which is the province, that’s kind of like a state for American listeners, is extra conservative. I’m nonpartisan with all of the shit.

06:51 John: I hear, I hear you. However yeah, it’s extra conservative than the West Coast.

06:55 Mark Hughes: Yeah. And I don’t imply simply conservative politically, it’s socially, it’s extra conservative.

07:00 John: Okay.

07:00 Mark Hughes: Pop-up protected injection websites are nonetheless type of a… I don’t need to say controversial, essentially, however they’re not… The general public hasn’t completely accepted and embraced them.

07:10 John: Okay.

07:10 Mark Hughes: Once more, not essentially condemning them however it’s not as embedded within the cultural panorama as Insite, like everybody in Vancouver is aware of concerning the protected injection website, it’s simply type of provided that they’ve them. Anyway, the pop-up protected injection websites right here will not be getting authorities funding and doubtless aren’t going to any time quickly. And the opposite drawback is, is whereas there are fairly a couple of overdoses right here, the inhabitants is lots greater right here, and the speed of overdose per pop… In comparison with the inhabitants is decrease right here. So, and I’ve seen how the media studies it right here, too. It doesn’t get the headlines within the entrance pages, prefer it did in BC. Like in BC, you’ll be able to’t speak to anybody who doesn’t know what fentanyl is.

07:54 John: Yeah.

07:55 Mark Hughes: You’d be hard-pressed to seek out anybody who doesn’t know somebody, immediately or not directly, who died of a drug overdose.

08:01 John: Wow.

08:01 Mark Hughes: Right here in Toronto, I used to be at a comedy present and I’ve jokes about fentanyl and stuff like that, and somebody didn’t know what fentanyl was. I couldn’t consider it. They’re like, “What’s fentanyl?” And I assumed as a result of… I assumed as a result of Vancouver had gotten nationwide and worldwide information relating to the overdoses, as a result of I assumed that everybody, however no, it hasn’t permeated the tradition or social consciousness prefer it had as it’s right here. I’ve truly had a tough time getting any type of response from the media right here, which I discover surprising, too, as a result of in Vancouver, the primary time I did it and the second time, I simply posted a submit on Fb saying, “I’m doing a fundraiser,” and I obtained inundated with media requests.

08:42 John: Wow.

08:42 Mark Hughes: Yeah. Yeah. And the factor I don’t perceive is, even should you don’t give a shit about this, overdose, comedy, mix them. Click on.

08:50 John: Yeah.

08:50 Mark Hughes: Why isn’t it like this? That was one thing individuals would click on on simply to see.

08:53 John: Proper.

08:53 Mark Hughes: Yeah, however no curiosity right here.

08:55 John: Yeah.

08:56 Mark Hughes: I don’t perceive it.

08:57 John: However it’s a drawback in Toronto. I used to be taking a look at some statistics of paramedics’ responses to overdoses and it’s fairly vital, the variety of overdoses they’ve to answer and the variety of these the place they’re deadly. I feel there have been like three,00zero, over three,00zero calls, responses, completely in 2018, if I keep in mind proper, and a fraction of these have been deadly.

09:26 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

09:26 John: A part of the… And people are simply those the place paramedics reply. So you already know that there are lots the place no one is aware of.

09:34 Mark Hughes: Yeah. Nicely, the individuals who often die of a drug overdose have been utilizing alone someplace, or someplace that was not close to the place or perhaps not… Close to is perhaps not the best phrase, however in a spot the place medical or some type of intervention was much less more likely to occur, proper?

09:57 John: So there are 4 protected injection websites, I consider, in Toronto.

10:02 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

10:02 John: And people are sanctioned. So those that aren’t sanctioned, the pop-ups, do the police simply tolerate these?

10:07 Mark Hughes: Yeah. Similar factor. Yeah.

10:09 John: Okay.

A pop-up injection website at Toronto’s Moss Park.

10:09 Mark Hughes: It’s by and enormous, most businesses, whether or not they be psychological well being, regulation enforcement, social work, for probably the most half, see drug use, drug habit, all this stuff as a well being concern greater than a felony factor now, that’s… Now, anybody listening, is perhaps, “However there was this time and… Yeah, yeah.” I do know there’s exceptions and it’s not all the time handled like that, however I might say usually talking, it’s not seen as a legal or one thing that regulation enforcement actually must become involved in.

10:44 John: Yeah. And I agree that that’s the best way it ought to be. You talked about in considered one of your podcasts that if you examine it to the AIDS epidemic, there are extra individuals dying of the opioid disaster than of the AIDS epidemic, and habit is way harder to deal with.

10:57 Mark Hughes: Yep, additionally so as… So each time research are completed they usually’re doing analysis on how one can resolve this problem, they draw comparisons and parallels between the AIDS epidemic and this, however this can be a lot more durable to socially handle for therefore many various causes, as a result of the AIDS epidemic… This may be over-simplistic, but when individuals use safety whereas they’re having intercourse that’s, then that may scale back it. Drug analysis will help consciousness of safer intercourse practices as a result of individuals have intercourse, that’s not going to cease and that’s nice. Intercourse is superior. It’s exhausting to get individuals to cease utilizing medicine, although.

11:38 John: Precisely.

11:38 Mark Hughes: And I’m not saying individuals ought to cease utilizing medicine, however it’s not one thing the place you’ll be able to go… Even offering protected consumption websites, consciousness, you’re nonetheless taking fentanyl or Carfentanil. It’s a poison, principally, regardless that it will get you actually excessive and it feels actually nice, it’s a substance that may kill you and the character of habit and medicines and drug use and all this type of stuff… It’s not like individuals are sitting there in a laboratory with coats and clipboards going, “Okay, no, that’s one microgram an excessive amount of earlier than they do a repair,” proper? It’s simply… And other people declare, “Oh, if it was legalized, it will… ” I don’t personally consider that if it was legalized hastily the world can be a utopia. There can be much less deaths, there can be much less issues, however I feel individuals… There can be extra medical, there can be entry to medicine that may be… You’d know the purity and all this type of stuff, however individuals would nonetheless use medicine.

12:36 John: Yeah.

12:37 Mark Hughes: And there would nonetheless be overdoses. In all probability not as many, however there nonetheless can be. And I feel lots of people… It makes it… They make it… They all the time say, “Properly, look what they did in Portugal, look what they did in Portugal.” However even individuals in Portugal have stated that it helped, however it wasn’t essentially… It’s not a utopia both. Drug habit, even when the federal government’s giving me my medicine and I do know that their not soiled and I don’t overdose and I don’t have abscesses and I’m not contracting illnesses and stuff like that. If I’m getting excessive all day daily, am I main the life that I actually, coronary heart of hearts, need to lead? I’ll depart that query open, as a result of I don’t need to converse for different individuals’s experiences and stuff like, however I simply… The purpose I’m making is drug use, the parallels between AIDS and drug use, there are some, however ultimately they diverge they usually’re undoubtedly not the identical factor. That was…

13:30 John: No, you’re proper about that. And the homosexual group was capable of assist one another throughout that early time, as a result of there was nobody else serving to them. Whereas with the addicts, actually don’t have the best way to… [chuckle]

13:41 Mark Hughes: They assist one another. Lots of these pop-up injection websites, and even those which might be government-sanctioned, are manned, staffed by drug customers and people who find themselves a part of these communities.

13:54 John: Okay, that’s cool.

13:54 Mark Hughes: In order that they have the naloxone. In order that they’re serving to one another. Right here’s the issue I see that’s totally different. The most important drawback that I see that’s totally different than the AIDS epidemic versus drug addicts is… Though an argument might be made, and it’d be correct, that again within the ’90s, ’80s and ’90s, homosexuality and homosexual individuals weren’t as socially acceptable, it was simpler to simply accept them than a junkie.

14:20 John: Yeah, proper.

14:21 Mark Hughes: And I don’t assume that’s going anyplace anytime quickly, to be trustworthy. I feel progress has been made, lots of people are extra conscious of drug habit. And what obtained the media consideration in Vancouver is when suburban, middle-class, regular individuals began dying of drug overdoses. A lot of individuals have been dying earlier than that, nevertheless it took that to start out getting and the quote-unquote tainted drug provide. That’s huge. That’s what the rock and roll challenge was in Vancouver is, “Oh, you might simply be a daily individual and die now, not only a junkie.” After which, the media was mis-reporting. They have been making it sound just like the medicine have been deliberately contaminated and stuff like that. That wasn’t precisely correct both. Additionally they have been making it… They didn’t report that folks have been purposely in search of out fentanyl both, that fentanyl had primarily changed heroin because the opioid of selection. The media with a bunch of these items has inaccurately some issues, and that’s one other factor that’s brought about an issue, proper?

The Toronto Overdose Prevention Society operates pop-up injection websites. There has not been a single demise at any protected injection website.

15:22 John: However I didn’t know a lot about fentanyl, and I used to be listening to your podcast and also you talked about that it simply takes the dimensions of a match, the top of a match, to kill…

15:32 Mark Hughes: That could be an excessive amount of, yeah. Oh, for a couple of of us, yeah, yeah.

15:36 John: And is it being put into different medicine? Is that the way it’s getting used?

15:42 Mark Hughes: What the issue is, the reason being plenty of… It’s not like individuals are slicing cocaine with fentanyl, it’s extra that as a result of fentanyl, such a small quantity, mud particles, actually, dissolved simply… Principally, what they name it’s cross-contamination. So if I weigh up some coke on a scale, cocaine, and I don’t clear it off correctly… Or, sorry, begin with the fentanyl, weigh up some fentanyl, then if I don’t clear it off correctly after which I weigh up coke, the coke’s now contaminated, as a result of it doesn’t take very a lot. So it’s extra being saved or ready close to one another is what causes it, and that’s it, it’s all it takes.

16:30 John: Wow. And is it coming from China?

16:33 Mark Hughes: That’s one supply. A few of it. Some individuals say it’s from Mexico too, however a number of the stuff in BC is from China, as a result of you possibly can mail order it.

16:41 John: Wow.

16:41 Mark Hughes: There’s some conspiracy theories that the Chinese language are… Properly, they use it to launder cash, and there’s kind of a culling of the herd which then make it simpler to gentrify, to kill all of the individuals off, purchase the property when it’s at low, after which develop when the property’s larger. It’s a conspiracy concept, there’s no proof for these things. A few of these issues that I discussed, there are direct correlations. Huge investigations have been completed about cash laundering for medicine and the supply of the fentanyl. Now, the motives behind all of it, that may’t be confirmed, however it isn’t that far of a stretch. Yeah.

17:23 John: Are you able to describe what one these protected injection websites is like?

17:28 Mark Hughes: So the pop-up ones are often a tent, a tent, the identical type that you simply’d lease for a barbecue in your yard or a park, that sort. A few of them are in portables, little trailers, if you already know the sort. Like the varsity trailer the place they’ve… Inside, there’s some tables and a few chairs and drug-using provides, corresponding to syringes, alcohol swabs, water, armbands or tensor bands for tying off the arm, vitamin C packets should you’re breaking down sure varieties of opioids or crack cocaine, after which they only have employees sort of simply sitting round. They’re there to shoot the shit too. They’re sort of half social employee factor as properly, however primarily simply to oversee, and if something occurs, they reply.

18:18 John: Okay.

18:18 Mark Hughes: Yeah, they usually’ve received Narcan or naloxone.

18:21 John: And that’s what’s used to cease the overdose. And it really works?

18:26 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yeah. Up to now, so far as I do know, final time I appeared, in Canada at the very least, there hasn’t been one demise in a supervised or protected injection website.

18:35 John: Okay.

18:36 Mark Hughes: There have been numerous deaths elsewhere, however not on a… At a supervised or protected injection website.

18:39 John: So I’m an alcoholic, I’m a recovered alcoholic, and I didn’t actually do medicine, apart from perhaps pot. And so, with alcohol, even in the course of the worst of my consuming, it virtually felt like there was some type of a social facet to it. However if you’re attending to this habit and also you’re going to certainly one of these protected websites, is… Is there that aspect of it, or is it simply you’re there to get a repair, you’re there to get what you want? You realize what I’m saying? I imply, are the individuals…

19:11 Mark Hughes: It’s not like a bar. It’s not like a bar.

19:12 John: Okay. It’s not like a bar. It’s not like… So it’s… I don’t know what I’m making an attempt to say.

19:17 Mark Hughes: The main distinction… Okay. I obtained clear and sober within the alcohol fellowship, however that’s as a result of the drug one wasn’t actually that prevalent with the group I did. I’m a drug addict, although. Don’t get me improper. I can’t drink, both, shit occurs. However I’m a drug man, all the time was. The most important distinction between alcoholics and drug addicts primarily, aside from the social acceptance and legality, there’s extra trauma concerned with individuals who use medicine, usually talking.

19:47 John: Yeah.

19:47 Mark Hughes: In case you took an alcoholic and a drug addict, particularly IV drug use, in all probability greater than 50-50 odds that the drug addict was in all probability abused sooner or later, and I don’t simply imply like a spanking. I imply, typically sexual.

20:05 John: Critical.

20:06 Mark Hughes: One thing critical, proper. Typically coming from extra poverty or foster care or one thing like that, proper? Whereas, alcoholics have by and enormous, usually talking… I do know individuals may get “You realize, that’s not me,” however usually talking, tended to sort of lead extra “regular” lives for probably the most half. The most important drawback was the booze and the issues that got here together with the booze. And sure, alcoholics additionally drink for the sensation like becoming in, all that type of stuff. However there’s a speaker, his identify’s… Fuck, I can’t keep in mind what his… Chris… I feel it’s Chris R, he’s a AA speaker. Heard him on a tape one time. He says, “For anybody who says that an alcoholic and a drug addict are the identical, take heed to a crackhead’s step 5. And it’s like, “Yeah.” I do know what he means when he says that, proper? Like there’s simply different stuff. So, to reply your query, on the protected injection websites, it’s individuals are simply in, out, do the repair, rise up.

21:03 John: Yeah. It’s not part of it.

21:04 Mark Hughes: Hang around and speak a bit of bit. It’s not… Okay. It’s a bit extra like a bar than you may assume it’s, however it’s not precisely like a bar both.

21:12 John: Okay.

21:13 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

21:13 John: as a result of it appear to me, it’s like a medical… It’s a spot to go to be protected, principally, and I assume you’d name this hurt discount.

21:20 Mark Hughes: Sure.

21:21 John: That might fall into hurt discount.

You can also make a donation to the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society at their Go Fund Me web page:

21:22 Mark Hughes: That’s supervised… Methadone, Suboxone, these are what are referred to as opioid-replacer drug alternative therapies, and protected injection websites are the face of hurt discount. In order that when individuals consider hurt discount, these are the issues that folks take into consideration, proper?

21:41 John: Yeah.

21:41 Mark Hughes: Hurt discount means much more than that, however these… And sadly, as a result of these kind of drug alternative and protected injection websites, as a result of they’re the faces or the issues that get probably the most airtime about hurt discount, they’re additionally probably the most controversial, proper?

21:57 John: Okay. Nicely, they save lives. The protected injection websites undoubtedly save lives, and there’s analysis to again that up.

22:02 Mark Hughes: Sure. Completely. The info exhibits that it reduces illness transmission, improves general well being and high quality of life in individuals who use medicine, and nobody’s died of a drug overdose since. Inside Vancouver, I don’t assume anybody’s ever died there.

22:20 John: That’s good.

22:20 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

22:21 John: And it additionally connects individuals with different individuals.

22:24 Mark Hughes: It additionally connects individuals with different individuals, so that you aren’t utilizing alone, for fast security and also you’re not as socially remoted. And most of those providers, ostensibly… There’s a little bit of controversy round that and I’ll get to that in slightly bit. Ostensibly and sometimes, truly do join individuals with providers that they could want, reminiscent of a detox, resembling a rehab, resembling housing, resembling all this stuff, proper?

22:52 John: Yeah. Properly, I inform you, I might personally help one thing like that. I don’t understand how controversial hurt discount is amongst those that I’d know in restoration, and perhaps it’s controversial.

23:03 Mark Hughes: I’ve discovered, in Vancouver and Canada, however my expertise primarily is in Vancouver. Verify again with me in a yr, I’ll inform you what it’s like for actual in Toronto. There’s a divide… I do know down in your neck of the woods, you understand how in the USA, you have got your proper and left in politics?

23:23 John: Proper, sure.

23:26 Mark Hughes: Yeah. Up right here we have now abstinence and hurt discount.

23:28 John: Okay.

23:31 Mark Hughes: Should you assume weapons or trans loos was a fucking debate, you need to see the abstinence versus hurt discount. Each camps have their evangelicals too, each camps have their radicals. So, you’ll have the abstinence individuals, which are typically 12-steppers, yeah?

23:52 John: Proper.

23:52 Mark Hughes: That is an agnostic-based podcast.

23:54 John: It’s, yeah. I’m an atheist.

23:56 Mark Hughes: So you realize what I’m speaking about once we speak concerning the fucking evangelical maniacs.

24:00 John: Yeah, they’re sort of dogmatic.

24:01 Mark Hughes: Yeah, I…

24:01 John: They’ve this dogmatic concept that that is the one approach, proper.

24:05 Mark Hughes: In order that they get like that and you understand, the one individuals who the 12 steps by no means work for are those who didn’t attempt it and it’s like…

24:12 John: Proper, proper.

24:13 Mark Hughes: All that shit, proper?

24:14 John: God didn’t shine on them.

24:16 Mark Hughes: Blah, blah, blah, proper? You didn’t need it dangerous sufficient and blah, blah, proper?

24:20 John: Yeah.

24:21 Mark Hughes: Hurt discount is simply enabling… Why wouldn’t you… It is advisable to assist individuals get to their backside quicker, not assist them be… This type of shit, proper? Additionally, you understand how 12-step teams might be. In principle, they’re very benevolent. However in apply, you get the mistaken group collectively, they usually can truly do extra hurt than good and drive individuals, proper?

24:46 John: That’s true.

24:46 Mark Hughes: After which there’s predatory individuals and all this fucking shit.

24:50 John: Proper. There are issues.

24:51 Mark Hughes: Oh, yeah. I’m a proud member of 12-step teams and any criticism I’ve ever heard, I’m like, “Yeah.” All I can do is simply attempt not to try this shit, that’s one of the best I… Perhaps name it out if I see it, proper? Nevertheless, the hurt discount individuals aren’t harmless both. They often don’t assume abstinence is sensible or attainable.

25:13 John: Oh, okay.

25:14 Mark Hughes: Have you ever ever heard the time period “gentle bigotry of low expectations?”

25:17 John: Yeah, I’ve heard that.

Go to Mark’s web site Think about reserving him on your subsequent roundup or convention.25:18 Mark Hughes: Okay, they do this typically, so lot of the individuals work in hurt discount are employees who’re like, find yourself kind of treating their shoppers as youngsters, sort of… They usually’re like, “There, there, it’s okay, you don’t want… ” They usually don’t maintain them accountable, they usually begin… They have a tendency to… Once more, this isn’t everyone, however that is their model of the novel bullshit that occurs is… It’s by no means the drug consumer’s fault or duty. It’s all the time one thing else, society, the federal government, the patriarchy, colonialism. And any try and say, “Hey man, like perhaps snatching purses and main this life isn’t essentially the healthiest factor, that’s like rape or one thing.” Proper? Like, now, you’re interfering with their company, so…

26:09 Mark Hughes: After which they are saying, anybody who’s in 12-step is definitely doing extra hurt than good and abstinence isn’t reasonable. The info doesn’t present it. We shouldn’t even be mentioning it. The one half I agree with, once they say abstinence shouldn’t essentially be promoted, as we’re in a… This can be a disaster. Abstinence, for many opioid customers within the short-term, is unattainable.

26:32 John: Proper.

26:33 Mark Hughes: To only go, “Grrr, simply get an enormous e-book and fucking pray and… ” No, not going to occur. Just like the day… With opioid use, you must get them bodily… So in all probability, ideally, in a super world, we begin them off on a drug alternative comparable to Methadone or Suboxone to cope with the bodily withdrawal, after which take it from there. as a result of the issue is is then individuals attempt to simply minimize themselves off, their tolerance goes down. Oops, have a nasty day within the detox, exit lifeless. That’s the most prone inhabitants to drug overdose are individuals getting out of jail, and other people and who try, who’re… One way or the other, for no matter cause, trying abstinence, whether or not pressured on them or not, proper, as a result of they develop tolerance.

27:18 John: Yeah, yeah, in order that entire factor concerning the debate inside the restoration group I feel is type of in all places, that the issue is that folks assume that there’s just one method, and it’s my approach. And I feel the reality of the matter is, should you take a look at analysis, is there isn’t any only one approach at to deal with habit. You actually should tailor it for a particular person’s want, as a result of it’s a really complicated illness. So…

27:44 Mark Hughes: Analysis truly exhibits that most individuals who’ve substance abuse points ultimately simply cease on their very own.

27:50 John: Yeah, that’s true.

27:52 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yeah.

27:52 John: Isn’t that fascinating?

27:53 Mark Hughes: They age out, as they are saying.

27:55 John: I do know, and lots of people say once they speak about AA, too, or any of the 12-step packages, they’ll say, “Research present that that’s not likely efficient remedy,” however it’s actually not purported to be remedy. It’s purported to be help. So I don’t know.

28:10 Mark Hughes: And I’m a die-hard, I’m a lifer within the 12 steps. I’ll by no means cease going, I don’t go as a lot as I used to, however I’ll by no means cease going. What it did for me greater than… Like, I’m abstinent now, arising on 13 years, however that wasn’t the miracle, it’s tacky. What it was, I acquired out of jail, and I had a spot to go.

28:30 John: Yeah.

28:30 Mark Hughes: You discover ways to drive a automotive. They taught me social expertise, they invited me into their houses, all this, like they helped me once I was fucked up and needed to kill myself or return to jail. They talked me by means of all that. I had associates who’d take me out for espresso and we’d joke round and make enjoyable of stuff and I used to be like, I want… The abstinence half at that time was truly the straightforward half.

28:50 John: Yeah.

28:51 Mark Hughes: It was that… Not utilizing medicine for the previous few years main as much as my… To getting sober and a bit earlier than. Abstinence I might do, I didn’t need to use medicine anymore, however I had… I didn’t, it had been my life for therefore lengthy, I didn’t know what to… I didn’t consider I might ever be a member of society, not likely. as a result of I might by no means reconcile, how do you not use medicine and never do crime, but in addition go to work? I didn’t assume I might do this in Nameless the… The unnamed 12-steps taught me how I might do this.

29:26 John: Yeah, it places you in contact with individuals that may care about you, when no one else will, and also you’re with individuals who can determine with you. It’s a help community is what it’s. And I feel that’s what helped me too. So, let’s speak about you slightly bit. I’m fascinated with not essentially what obtained you in jail or your experiences there, however the troublesome a part of transitioning from and to doing what you’re doing now. So how did you turn out to be a comic going from the place you have been to the place you’re?

29:54 Mark Hughes: Alright, okay. I’m glad you requested that query the best way you probably did. as a result of everybody all the time needs to know, “What’s jail like? Did you get raped when you have been in there?” It’s all this fucking shit. Yeah, and a pair truly ask me that on a regular basis. They ask me that a lot, if I received raped whereas I used to be in jail, I truly wrote a reasonably lengthy bit about how, when would you ever ask anybody else that? I’m not going to inform the joke, you fuck.


30:18 John: Proper, okay.

Study extra about Mark at his web site Think about reserving him on your subsequent roundup or conference.

30:20 Mark Hughes: So, the toughest half about doing time is getting out, arms down, re-acclimatize. When you’re in jail for a yr, fuck that. In your thoughts, psychologically, that’s your own home anyway. So it simply is what it’s. It’s like shifting to a special city. Yeah, you simply… Like let’s say you needed to up and go at some point for a stroll and also you didn’t need to go, and also you went to the place you didn’t need to go. Given sufficient time, even for those who didn’t like it, you’d simply be like, “Okay, I reside right here now, proper?” Similar with jail. However you then get out, after which assume you’re purported to be law-abiding, and all this type of stuff, whenever you do attempt to do this, I might say I’ve heard america and Canada are totally different on this regard. So, Canada is extra socialist, extra humanitarian… No, I don’t need to say humanitarian, however the rehabilitation, reintegration is extra on… Is extra the prime directive.

31:15 John: We’re actual punishment-oriented in the USA.

31:15 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yeah.

31:16 John: We make it arduous for an individual to ever discover a life once more.

31:18 Mark Hughes: Okay.

31:19 John: Yeah.

31:19 Mark Hughes: Canada presents itself as this type of world chief in corrections as a result of they’ve adopted the most effective elements of all these correctional methods, proper? It’s fucking bullshit, although, it’s run by bureaucrats. That’s the socialist half, that’s just like the dangerous a part of this socialist half. It’s simply… They’re not essentially making an attempt to punish and… However they’re not essentially serving to both. It’s extra like… They’ve all these packages that are supposed to assist, however they really… Typical bureaucratic purple tape simply to make it extra fucking difficult, and you then get the type of social employee… I used to be recording a podcast, simply earlier than, my podcast I used to be recording yesterday and we have been speaking variations. Canada could be very center class, it’s a center class nation, and I don’t simply imply economically, I imply culturally too, proper?

32:04 John: Yeah.

32:05 Mark Hughes: It’s not widespread for individuals right here to know somebody who’s been in jail. The typical a part of society, whereas, down within the States, fucking everybody is aware of anyone. It’s not that uncommon down there, proper?

32:15 John: Proper. [chuckle]

32:15 Mark Hughes: Which, that’s a special dialogue as a result of…

32:18 John: Proper. That’s an issue in itself.

32:20 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

32:20 John: We put so many individuals in jail.

32:21 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well being, age might be referred to as into query due to that, however anyway, so that you get out in a rustic like Canada, it feels like, “Okay. That’s it. I’m going to be a law-abiding member of society. The world is mine now.” Improper. It’s not straightforward to combine, how do you speak to individuals about like, “The place have you ever been for the previous few years?” After which, in contrast to what I think about it’s like within the States the place Uncle Joe’s been in jail, “I do know previous Uncle Joe, I do know what that’s like.” Right here, you inform individuals you’ve been in jail, usually talking, you’re the primary individual they’ve ever met who’s been in jail, particularly the cities, proper? as a result of, once more, the category system right here is such that should you’re sort of under the center class, you’re by no means across the center class. It’s not built-in, it’s not… Canada prides itself on being multicultural and numerous… It’s bullshit, it’s not completely true.

33:15 Mark Hughes: I might say that the range, the lacking piece of variety in Canada doesn’t should do with complexion, gender, sexual orientation. It’s extra, it’s class and values. So, you would have a trans individual, a black individual, an Asian individual, a homosexual individual, all hanging out in a gaggle and also you’d see them on the bar or the espresso store, and also you’d assume, “Oh, wow! Take a look at that. Isn’t that numerous?” However for those who closed your eyes and also you simply listened to them, they sound the identical. [chuckle] You already know what I imply?

33:47 John: Proper.

33:47 Mark Hughes: They don’t actually disagree on something. They’ve the identical political and social level. After which right here, I discover that in case you’re totally different after which once more, class, it’s this class-ship. Should you don’t speak the fitting approach, that really causes it to be more durable right here, which is, if you already know something about class, center courses, it’s all the time been the one that’s the hardest as a result of they’re sort of the… The center class is kind of the vanguard of the elite. So, I don’t need to… I hate to sound like this, however that is simply one thing of… I didn’t imply to study all this. That is integration, what I discovered I had. I needed to study, as a result of I used to be like, “Why is it so fucking onerous to combine?” So the center class type of… They’re the shoppers principally, proper? They’re those that… They type of management the tradition and the center class tends to actually like issues to be established order and we don’t need to be upset. We don’t need to harm anybody. Presentation is an enormous factor with the center class, proper?

34:43 John: Yeah.

34:43 Mark Hughes: What do the neighbors assume? So, there I’m going, Mark ex-convict Magoo, fucking who doesn’t know something about political correctness, and I’ve simply spent the final fucking variety of years in my life making an attempt to speak the best way you do. I’m alienating myself as a result of I don’t know find out how to speak to those individuals. My intentions have been good. I’m making an attempt to be a law-abiding… For the primary time in my life, I’m actually making an attempt to be a law-abiding member of society, however I don’t know the right way to fucking speak to those individuals, proper?

35:13 John: Proper.

35:13 Mark Hughes: Very troublesome. Getting the job half, that was exhausting, however I ultimately received that. Getting the place to reside, that was onerous however I ultimately acquired that. The kind of survival issues, the bottom rung on the Maslow’s hierarchy of wants, I acquired that shit.

35:28 John: So that you’ve acquired that now.

35:29 Mark Hughes: Yeah, nonetheless do, however the subsequent one up, connecting with individuals, which is nearly as essential because the meals, shelter, proper? I couldn’t get that. AA, or, sorry, the unnamed…

35:41 John: The 12 steps.

35:43 Mark Hughes: The 12 steps helped with that. The issue was, although, name it vanity, name it no matter you need to name it, I didn’t like being relegated to a type of subset of society.

35:54 John: I sort of like that too. I really feel that approach too.

35:57 Mark Hughes: I didn’t need to… And I’m not shitting on the 12 steps, however I didn’t…

36:00 John: Proper.

36:00 Mark Hughes: I simply sorta knew, it’s like, actually? Is that this it? I can solely hang around right here?

36:05 John: I hear precisely what you’re saying, I sort of really feel sort of boxed in typically. The identify I gave the goddamn podcast. [laughter] So, anyway.

Mark’s podcast, “Pulling the Set off” is superior. Take a look at Episode four “Kyle” the Drug Supplier.36:16 Mark Hughes: So, and I needed to do issues that have been simply I’d by no means finished earlier than. I didn’t even know the issues I’d by no means accomplished earlier than however I didn’t need to simply be, “It’s gotta be a sober this, it’s gotta be a restoration that, it’s solely restoration speak.” So I began experimenting with issues to attempt simply to… Okay, what do individuals do? They hike, they’ve hobbies, they fucking… I attempted volunteering, I attempted improv, I attempted… After which someday, I used to be doing a set of steps with a man and he simply kind of… He simply was capable of intuit that I wanted some sort of artistic outlet. Me, Mark Hughes, wanted a artistic outlet. And other people had informed me for… I feel he meant like oil portray or pottery, or one thing like that, however individuals had advised me for years, “You’re humorous, you’re humorous.” Once I’d share at conferences, I’d get individuals laughing and I don’t simply imply type of, they’d snigger lots, proper?

37:05 John: Proper.

37:06 Mark Hughes: as a result of I’d say fucked up shit. That was type of… Nicely, principally true, however you’re not presupposed to say that, however it was true, proper? And I used to be by no means the kind of man who shared and making an attempt to make it look all nice. I’d speak concerning the fucked up issues that have been occurring in my restoration and stuff like that. So I made a decision to… I enrolled in a stand-up comedy class. I wasn’t making an attempt to be a stand-up comedian, it was simply, “Alright, why don’t I do this?” Instantly, I used to be like, “Oh, okay.” Very first thing I ever present in my life that I used to be fairly good at instantly.

37:40 John: Yeah. You’re good at it.

37:41 Mark Hughes: Ok… And I used to be capable of see, hey, I’m truly not dangerous at this. Every thing else I’d ever tried in my life, I wasn’t good at and I used to be like, “Oh, fuck, that is going to take a very long time to get good at,” proper? So the comedy, I used to be okay at and I simply went, “Alright.” And it lends itself, the life-style of being a stand-up comedian, lends itself to a man like me.

38:00 John: Completely.

38:01 Mark Hughes: It’s as shut as you might be to being a junkie with out breaking the regulation or doing medicine. as a result of I…

38:05 John: Comedy fascinates me as a result of beneath what makes individuals chuckle is one thing that’s very lethal critical.

38:13 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

38:14 John: And it simply blows me away, since you’re speaking one thing that’s actually necessary, that’s tragic oftentimes, however you do it in a means that, I don’t know, it’s humorous. And it blows me away, that undercurrent is all the time underneath comedy.

38:30 Mark Hughes: Yep. Yeah, it’s…


38:32 Mark Hughes: That stuff, yeah, you hear all of that on a regular basis. I simply… I appreciated it.

38:38 John: Yeah.

38:38 Mark Hughes: It fits me.

38:39 John: Yeah.

38:39 Mark Hughes: I used to be lastly capable of go, “Okay, look, I discovered a factor that’s socially acceptable sufficient, that I don’t completely should contort myself to slot in to society, and I can discover… ” Which I didn’t assume I used to be capable of do. I speak about this with a good friend of mine on a regular basis. I’m by no means going to be regular, I can’t do it… I’m too… For no matter purpose, my mind is just too traumatized, I’m an excessive amount of of a insurgent, I’m too cussed… One among them. I can’t do the 9 to five, let’s purchase a home, let’s have a household, all that. I simply don’t… I can’t do it. I can’t filter my ideas and phrases sufficient to slot in or to squeak by in an workplace setting, or something like that, and I’m too lazy for development.


39:19 Mark Hughes: Truthfully. So I lastly discovered the one factor that my strengths and weaknesses truly work.

39:28 John: Yeah.

39:28 Mark Hughes: From… So… And I… For probably the most half, I can say the stuff I need to say and get rewarded for it, both in laughter or cash, ideally each, but when doesn’t occur, I’m good. [chuckle]

39:41 John: So that you do have that artistic outlet now.

39:42 Mark Hughes: Yeah, yep.

39:42 John: And may you speak about… I assume there’s two issues, tragedy plus time served equals comedy. What’s that?

39:51 Mark Hughes: That’s a one man present I do for fringe festivals. It’s about my life, so it’s simply… Slightly than specializing in the comedic… Moderately than doing a comedy set, it’s extra of a storytelling monologue. Simply the… It’s like a 12-step share besides I’ve written it so regular individuals can relate to it a bit extra. Yeah.

40:11 John: So it’s one thing that you simply’ve written now and…

40:13 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

40:14 John: Okay. And that’s not comedy, essentially, it’s simply extra of a narrative of your life.

40:18 Mark Hughes: 60% critical, 40% comedy.

40:20 John: Okay.

40:21 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

40:22 John: Did you… Have you ever revealed that like on Amazon or something?

40:25 Mark Hughes: No, no, I haven’t recorded it.

40:27 John: Ohh…

40:27 Mark Hughes: Oh, no, it’s not written out, it’s a present I carry out.

40:31 John: Okay.

40:31 Mark Hughes: Individuals all the time say, “Why don’t you write it?” It’s like, “Ah, fuck.”

40:34 John: That’s loads of stuff.

40:34 Mark Hughes: Somebody has to take a seat down and write it, and I don’t assume I’m ready to do it. However I’d gladly collaborate with somebody, if anybody ever needs to assist me write it, I’ll speak, you dictate, no drawback.

40:44 John: Okay. I have to examine. I have to examine that out. I used to be type of interested by it as a result of I used to be studying about it, I assumed it was sort of fascinating. And one of many articles I examine it that they described it as a play.

Take heed to Mark’s superior podcast “Pulling the Set off.” Take a look at Episode four “Kyle” The Drug Vendor.

40:55 Mark Hughes: Yeah, I assume that’s… as a result of it’s carried out at fringe festivals it will be referred to as a play. When you have been to observe it, you’d be like, “Oh, this can be a fancy 12-step conference share type of factor,” however you don’t should be in 12-step to get it or… And it’s tweak this right here, tweak that there… So it’s a bit entertaining, kind of. Yeah.

41:20 John: Okay. And what’s Comedy Shocker?

41:23 Mark Hughes: That’s my triple X-rated darkish and soiled comedy present.

41:25 John: Okay. [chuckle]

41:25 Mark Hughes: So, the no holds barred comedy present that I began as a result of I obtained sick of listening to individuals say, “Oh, yeah, individuals don’t need to hear these sorts of jokes.” I used to be like, “Sure, they do, I do know they do.”

41:35 John: Yeah.

41:35 Mark Hughes: Guess which varieties need to hear them?

41:37 John: Who needs to listen to them. The center class guys? [chuckle] I don’t know.

41:41 Mark Hughes: No, no. Our varieties.

41:41 John: Oh, okay. [chuckle]

41:42 Mark Hughes: Yeah, as a result of comics would inform me, “No, no joke, individuals don’t like these type of jokes.” I used to be like, “Ah, I do know individuals who meet each night time and don’t drink alcohol, and drink numerous espresso who’d love these jokes. What the fuck are you speaking about?” So, I put this present collectively. And it turned pretty profitable in Vancouver. It’s… Lots of restoration individuals go… Not all, although, it’s not all. It’s about 50% restoration, within the 50%… And that… I simply didn’t like that folks have been saying, individuals don’t like these sort of jokes, as a result of that’s not true, it’s simply patently not true. It was extra that folks have been afraid of the potential backlash of these jokes. So I went, “Fuck it, I’ll create a protected area for fucking horrible jokes.”

42:26 John: Perhaps it relies upon upon the one that’s doing the routine too. Perhaps for you it’s a pure factor.

42:30 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

42:31 John: Perhaps coming from you, the best way that you simply current it, it’s acceptable. I don’t know.

42:35 Mark Hughes: Nicely, yeah, perhaps and typically not. I’ve dangerous units, and I’ve individuals get offended at my shit, however I simply needed a spot the place if individuals have been going to the present they knew precisely what they have been going for…

42:46 John: Yeah.

42:46 Mark Hughes: They usually have been paying to see… They needed to be… The boundaries to be pushed.

42:50 John: Okay.

42:51 Mark Hughes: And since that’s the kind of comedy I like.

42:53 John: And is that the routine you do in Toronto now?

42:55 Mark Hughes: I do… My routine is simply is ever-evolving, and situational and context.

43:00 John: Okay.

43:00 Mark Hughes: However my comedy is… The Comedy Shocker… So in the event you have been to observe me do a Comedy Shocker set, you’d see about 60% to 75% of the jokes I do there, I do anyplace for probably the most half. After which there’s about 30% to 25% that I solely do at that present as a result of I’d get the present shut down, if I did these jokes. And so, yeah, there are… A few of them are bit too harsh for normal human consumption.

43:27 John: So inform me about your podcast, it’s Pulling the Set off.

43:29 Mark Hughes: Pulling the Set off. It was a podcast I began a number of years in the past and I simply… I interview fascinating, uncommon and controversial individuals.

43:37 John: It’s.

43:38 Mark Hughes: And/or individuals who have controversial issues to say or fascinating or…

43:41 John: Yeah.

43:42 Mark Hughes: as a result of I’ve had far proper activists, I’ve had far left activists, I’ve had comedians, I’ve had drug sellers, I’ve had killers, I’ve had jail guards, I’ve had ladies who work with intercourse offenders. After which I’ve simply had individuals who I used to be like, “Hey, you sound sort of fascinating.”

44:00 John: Yeah.

44:00 Mark Hughes: “Let’s speak to you.” And plenty of…

44:02 John: It’s actually cool. It’s actually journalistic in a method.

44:04 Mark Hughes: Oh, good.

44:06 John: Yeah, I actually loved it. I listened to your complete episode, the John Moses.

44:11 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

44:11 John: After which I listened to about half of one other one.

44:15 Mark Hughes: Okay.

44:15 John: So and I… In order that’s my solely publicity to it, so I’m going to take heed to extra of them, although, as a result of I actually really loved it.

44:20 Mark Hughes: For the listeners of your podcast, and also you, if you wish to discover out fairly a bit about fentanyl and all that stuff, episode four, Kyle the drug supplier. I interviewed a fentanyl supplier and he actually broke down. I’m pleased with that episode, as a result of he dispelled this fable that the drug provide was tainted, and other people have been by chance overdosing, as a result of the… Once more, the media wasn’t reporting this, though everybody knew. So it was the primary time on report that somebody was saying, “No, individuals are purposely looking for out fentanyl.” And I’ll depart it at that in your listeners to go and pay attention in.

44:58 John: Okay. I’m going to take heed to that one.

45:00 Mark Hughes: Yeah.

45:00 John: Okay, so let’s wrap it up, going again to the present once more.

45:03 Mark Hughes: Okay.

45:04 John: What can individuals anticipate on the present, who’re they going to see?

45:08 Mark Hughes: March 28th, you imply?

45:09 John: Yeah, March 28th.

45:10 Mark Hughes: March 28th they’re going to see a bunch of comics who I really like in Toronto. I really like seeing what they do. So we’re going to be seeing Jarrett Campbell, Sarah Donaldson, Hannah Lawrence, Nick Flanagan, Maria Lopez and John Steinberg. And they’re people who find themselves very, very established Canadian comics, excellent Canadian comics, and it’s only a common night time of comedy. There’s nothing notably… The one distinction is the place the cash goes on the finish of the night time. So the cash might be going to the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society, for them to run their protected injection websites and simply have an additional bit of cash to… as a result of it prices… In Vancouver, one of many pop-up protected injection websites value between $100 and $150 a day to function.

45:56 John: Wow, wow.

45:57 Mark Hughes: I don’t know the precise determine on that in Toronto, however I’m assuming it’s in all probability comparable.

46:00 John: Yeah, wow.

46:01 Mark Hughes: If we increase… Let’s simply say they value $150 a day, if we increase, let’s say $1,500, they will function with some respiration room for 10 days. Yeah.

46:10 John: Okay. Additionally they have a GoFundMe web page which I’ll hyperlink to the podcast. And once I final checked, they raised $145,00zero, however they need to get, I feel, $250,00zero. In order that’s nice. So I encourage individuals to try this and help that. Nicely, Mark, thanks.

46:24 Mark Hughes: Thanks.

46:25 John: Thanks very a lot. It’s been an honor and a privilege and a pleasure to talk with you. And thanks, as a result of I by no means would have recognized about your podcast, I don’t know.


46:33 Mark Hughes: Yeah, I simply Googled…

46:34 John: And it’s an ideal podcast.

46:36 Mark Hughes: as a result of I’m making an attempt to get media consideration for the present. And yours got here up.

46:39 John: Oh, fantastic.

46:41 Mark Hughes: I assume you should have loads of listeners right here or one thing.

46:42 John: Yeah, I do truly in Canada. I’ve a variety of associates in Toronto. Toronto is a mecca for the agnostic atheist AA.

46:50 Mark Hughes: Yeah, it was actually controversial in Vancouver, once they began it. It was like…

46:55 John: Yeah, it was.

46:55 Mark Hughes: “We’re not placing that within the listing.”


46:56 John: I do know. I do know.

46:58 Mark Hughes: It’s sponsors… Verify this out. Sponsors would inform their fucking sponsees to not go to these conferences.

47:03 John: I do know, it’s loopy. You realize what’s hilarious, although? In a few of the extra liberal locations, it was extra controversial than a number of the conservative locations. That simply blew me away. In very uptight Kansas Metropolis, it’s completely effective, however in Vancouver, it’s an issue. I don’t know. [chuckle]

47:17 Mark Hughes: as a result of I might say, AA in Vancouver… Not that I ever go, I’ve simply heard this. as a result of I’m going to unnamed 12-step Fellowships. Vancouver AA, I’d say in some methods, as liberal and hippy-dippy because it might sound on the floor, it’s truly fairly conservative. Culturally, it’s very conservative.

47:35 John: The AA half, and that’s the way it all the time is, it appears, it’s like AA is a bit area of interest that’s totally different from the bigger group the place they stay. However anyway… So it’s been fascinating. Thanks very a lot, once more, I recognize it.

47:47 Mark Hughes: Have an excellent one.


48:01 John: Go to Mark’s web site,, to study extra about Mark, his comedy and his podcast. In the event you’d like to assist the Toronto Overdose Prevention Society, remember to go to their GoFundMe web page at And for those who’re within the Toronto space and on the lookout for some laughs and a chance to help a superb trigger, take a look at the Protected Injection Comedy Fundraiser on the 120 Diner, Toronto, Ontario on March 28. Nicely, that concludes one other episode of AA Past Perception, the Podcast. Thanks for listening.

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